Actually, looking at Midi Monitor, it sends Active Sense messages to keep alive. That would be nice! For now an easy hack is to have an empty sysex generator somewhere with an LFO hooked up to it.
However, when a pad or other indicator is lit via a Note/CC, it is only lit for around 5 seconds – the device aggressively will clear lit elements if it fails to receive an additional MIDI message. Live maintains the connection by sending continuous Active Sense messages, so they remain lit as long as Live is open and doing so.
In Drambo, when mapping the device, I'm able to address all the elements as expected, but they also fail to stay lit (as expected). The workaround is to have, in the Drambo project, a module that sends ~any MIDI message continuously/periodically. In my test, I was able to use an LFO connected to an empty SysEx Generator, to continuously send a keep alive message.
Active Sense, as I understand it (http://midi.teragonaudio.com/tech/midispec/sense.htm), is designed to let devices know they are still connected even if no MIDI has been transmitted. Move expects this, and I would welcome the option in a controller mapping to send Active Sense messages. Otherwise, the workaround works, but takes up a slot and seems like a workaround, rather than a way to gain controller support.
I've attached the mapping as well as an example project with the sysex generator workaround.
OK that makes sense. Active sensing has been used for ages in hardware but because it has often caused more troubles than being useful, not to speak of unnecessary overhead especially when using Bluetooth MIDI, I'm really surprised that Ableton rely on active sensing and reset pad states after timeout. I don't know of any other MIDI controller that acts like this.
I've been playing with my fresh Ableton Move and Drambo on iPad. It works rather well, although the mapping needs to be a little refined. I'm not sure how to have the Pads not trigger notes while using them to launch clips.
Sounds like you're using the Move both as track and control inputs. (Settings => MIDI Inputs => your Move port).
As soon as you have mapped a MIDI note to any control, including a clip, this note should be excluded from track MIDI input, so if you get notes triggered anyway, you either found a new bug or MIDI messages sneak into Drambo over another route.
I've been setting Drambo up with the Roto Control and the feedback works super well.
So far I've mapped the flexi sampler, and I have a tip for other Roto+Drambo users.
I put Flexis on two tracks, with the same MIDI ccs to control the same knobs and buttons. The trick is to set those MIDI mappings (in Drambo) to only work on the current track. Then, when you switch tracks in Drambo, the Roto knobs jump to match the current Flexi.
Of course this will also work with other devices.
Question: I want to have a page on the Roto dedicated to track volume, sends, etc, and to have it update to reflect the current track. However, you can only map track volume, sends, etc on the Main page, and not on the individual track pages. Are there any workarounds for this?
From what I understand, MidiMix accepts only note messages to turn the button LEDs on and off, and only on channel 1.
I found this online editor (Midios) that creates StreamByter scripts for use between MidiMix and Drambo (I'm using Midimittr). It's much more advanced than Akai's editor, but the code isn't stable, and the script needs to be restarted every now and then. I'm trying to fix the issues with LLM, but the fact remains that every time you press a key, it sends a note to Drambo on channel 1. If you have a hardware synth that only receives on that channel, this can sometimes be a problem.
When you map a button in Drambo, make sure that in the MIDI mapping dialog you have:
Set Event Type to "Note"
Set Control Type to either "Button momentary" or "Button toggle"
Make sure that Channel is set to the right MIDI channel and Feedback Port is set to the AKAI
Button State Values let you set different values to send for different button conditions. As your AKAI expects Note messages, these will be the Note-on message velocity values that either adjust button LED brightness or color or both.
I have controllers here that also use note messages to control button LEDs and I have never needed any external utility like StreamByter or MidiMittr.
Comments
Actually, looking at Midi Monitor, it sends Active Sense messages to keep alive. That would be nice! For now an easy hack is to have an empty sysex generator somewhere with an LFO hooked up to it.
Can you be more precise please?
CC messages are called continuous messages too although they're usually only sent when a value changes.
Sure:
The Ableton Move can have its LEDs controlled programmatically via a combination of midi notes and CC. I've documented such here: https://github.com/charlesvestal/extending-move/wiki/Addressing-Move's-UI-over-MIDI
In "Control Live" mode, it acts as a dumb midi controller just emitting the pad information, as specified here: https://github.com/charlesvestal/extending-move/wiki/Move-As-a-Midi-Controller----Control-Surface
However, when a pad or other indicator is lit via a Note/CC, it is only lit for around 5 seconds – the device aggressively will clear lit elements if it fails to receive an additional MIDI message. Live maintains the connection by sending continuous Active Sense messages, so they remain lit as long as Live is open and doing so.
In Drambo, when mapping the device, I'm able to address all the elements as expected, but they also fail to stay lit (as expected). The workaround is to have, in the Drambo project, a module that sends ~any MIDI message continuously/periodically. In my test, I was able to use an LFO connected to an empty SysEx Generator, to continuously send a keep alive message.
Active Sense, as I understand it (http://midi.teragonaudio.com/tech/midispec/sense.htm), is designed to let devices know they are still connected even if no MIDI has been transmitted. Move expects this, and I would welcome the option in a controller mapping to send Active Sense messages. Otherwise, the workaround works, but takes up a slot and seems like a workaround, rather than a way to gain controller support.
I've attached the mapping as well as an example project with the sysex generator workaround.
OK that makes sense. Active sensing has been used for ages in hardware but because it has often caused more troubles than being useful, not to speak of unnecessary overhead especially when using Bluetooth MIDI, I'm really surprised that Ableton rely on active sensing and reset pad states after timeout. I don't know of any other MIDI controller that acts like this.
Great to hear that the sysex trick works!
I've been playing with my fresh Ableton Move and Drambo on iPad. It works rather well, although the mapping needs to be a little refined. I'm not sure how to have the Pads not trigger notes while using them to launch clips.
But pretty happy so far!
Hi!
Sounds like you're using the Move both as track and control inputs. (Settings => MIDI Inputs => your Move port).
As soon as you have mapped a MIDI note to any control, including a clip, this note should be excluded from track MIDI input, so if you get notes triggered anyway, you either found a new bug or MIDI messages sneak into Drambo over another route.
Nice use of the Master track btw!
I've been setting Drambo up with the Roto Control and the feedback works super well.
So far I've mapped the flexi sampler, and I have a tip for other Roto+Drambo users.
I put Flexis on two tracks, with the same MIDI ccs to control the same knobs and buttons. The trick is to set those MIDI mappings (in Drambo) to only work on the current track. Then, when you switch tracks in Drambo, the Roto knobs jump to match the current Flexi.
Of course this will also work with other devices.
Question: I want to have a page on the Roto dedicated to track volume, sends, etc, and to have it update to reflect the current track. However, you can only map track volume, sends, etc on the Main page, and not on the individual track pages. Are there any workarounds for this?
Does anyone know if there's a way to get midi feedback on the buttons on an Akay MidiMix?
What MIDI messages do the buttons expect?
Hi @rs2000 and thanks for replying
From what I understand, MidiMix accepts only note messages to turn the button LEDs on and off, and only on channel 1.
I found this online editor (Midios) that creates StreamByter scripts for use between MidiMix and Drambo (I'm using Midimittr). It's much more advanced than Akai's editor, but the code isn't stable, and the script needs to be restarted every now and then. I'm trying to fix the issues with LLM, but the fact remains that every time you press a key, it sends a note to Drambo on channel 1. If you have a hardware synth that only receives on that channel, this can sometimes be a problem.
https://tshoppa.github.io/Midios/index.html
Note messages sounds good.
When you map a button in Drambo, make sure that in the MIDI mapping dialog you have:
I have controllers here that also use note messages to control button LEDs and I have never needed any external utility like StreamByter or MidiMittr.