Program Changes with Bank Select in Drambo
Hello I’m new to Drambo and attempting to replace a sequencer and drum machine with it in my hardware set up however I’m stuck on how to switch patches on my hardware synths.
The PC Generator sends program changes however it’s missing bank select which makes it practically useless in most instance.
I was able to build a rack with two knobs connected to CC generators for the LSB and MSB connected with a PC generator to a midi mixer. This actually worked for sending a bank select with the program change however it’s way too clunky and fidgety to be practical in use. It’s nearly impossible to select the right number with a knob and the only way I can see which bank I’m selecting is to look for that cc message in the midi monitor. Beyond that each module is set to a specific midi channel so if I want to reuse the rack on another track I have to change the midi channel in multiple places.
If Drambo doesn’t have this functionality then is there perhaps an AU midi plugging that can handle selecting banks and patches?
I’m hoping that I’m missing something obvious. I’m really excited about Drambo’s possibilities however Bank select seems like such basic midi functionality that if it can’t do it then perhaps it’s still a bit too undercooked to make integrating with hardware practical.
I wish I had an answer for you, I will say that I've brought this issue up with @giku and it is certainly on the list of fixes and additions. LSB and MSB are indeed a must for a useful PC module. At the moment it is a bit tricky and the modulation inputs and send button aren't much help. The one use I've found is to use Clip Locks to send program changes on clip launch, but that still doesn't solve the bank change problem :/
Until a fix arrives, I would point you toward the Mozaic auv3 as a likely solution. there might very well be a script on the Patchstorage page that will handle program changes, and if not, there are people over on the Audiobus forum that will happily help draw something up.
edit: just did a quick search on patchstorage and found these two scripts that may or may not help
@palms thank you!
Thank you guys, yes this needs to be addressed
hope this means NRPN Generator will be considered :)
I was able to make my rack a little easier to use by adding a slider to fine tune the LSB value. It can set a Bank Select along with the PC generator and a Midi output module at the end sets the correct channel for all messages. I have been able to set the values on each track, save the project and have those values sent to each piece of hardware when the project is opened.
I've uploaded the rack to patchstorage: https://patchstorage.com/external-midi-pc-bank-recall/
@giku I hope we get Bank select with a dropdown to select the number or up and down buttons in the next update but I'm hoping this can serve as a work around until then.
This was my first forum post and I really appreciate the quick and helpful responses.
nice work :)
I hope this arrives soon, I’d also like to see it on the comp page so bank/PC can be set per step like on the Digis which is a great feature, or perhaps even provide a dedicated step panel alongside the others.
It’s one of the best features of the Digis compared to the OT Midi side because it allows making much more out of a single track, it’s a lot of fun sequencing Program Changes.
@hgs That's possible already.
Add a MIDI => PC Generator, hold a sequencer step and change the PC number by dragging the value field up or down.
Ahhhhh Great, thanks for letting me know!
"lets play some other sound on unused step ..." is the crude solution to "I dont have enough tracks to introduce another sound" ;)
no matter if you swop the sample or select another sound via midi -
as soon as you start swopping things they share the exact same audio channel and fx you and can't mute things separate anymore (u can work around this a little with very heavy editing of each step but thats not worth the hustle - its still a single track with some weird random mixture of sounds - lets mute that sound there, can't, because the sounds are all over the place ... usually not what I want - at some point it
becomes like a weird audio puzzle - if you change your mind later and want to change things u can forget that ...
and you can't have any sound at any time - its there is a free gap here, maybe I can fill it with something useful ...
I respect your view, but to me it’s an enjoyable creative process Elektron introduced me to.
Agreed, why add 50 tracks for 50 alternative samples if all can be done in 1 track 😉
because its a nightmare if you change mind and want to do something different later
I happen to change my mind a lot,
the next day I listen to stuff, uh that track doesn't work, I delete it.
I do that a lot. I delete things and see what works ...
stuff is unbearable tedious to edit if you change your mind later what should happen on this track. ;)
Not everybody uses your workflow @lala.
im just pointing out the negative side of it.
in case somebody hasn't used this method much and reads glamours things about it on the internet that aren't halfway true.
I'll show myself out. ^^
I can’t see how anyone would think that sequencing program changes is a bad habit tbh, try it out, it generates loops that you would never come up with. Works great with the E-MU racks & virus TI & on the Elektrons the program changes don’t always happen on time so introduces automatic variation. Makes some great MPC fodder.
I can see the benefit of the "surprise yourself/what happens if I do that" factor
novation sold what's its name synth with so called "aphex twin" mode that simply does the program change thing. I laughed a lot about that. ^^ thats some clever marketing blah to the midi standard ^^
its certainly a trick you can do every now and then,
but I would not use it as a daily basis or recommend to do that.
(half a year later you return to the project with that and nothing works anymore like it was because you tweaked your sounds in the meanwhile 😱...)
Unfortunately this doesn’t seem to work, it always sends program change zero. To get it to send in the way DN works it requires p-locking the send ON & then OFF on the following step. It definitely needs more work to function the Elektron way which would automatically send p-locked values.
I just tried this and it "worked for me". But I notice that you have the PC Gen signal input connected to the MIDI to CV module. That seems to block it from working as described; maybe it's waiting for the CV to select the PC number? I don't understand what the MIDI and Signal inputs are meant to do. My pic shows the signal input not connected, and it works as described. PCs 9 and 10 were pLocked.
Thanks Dave that did the trick, works as expected now :) I think initially I’d connected it to gate to see if that force triggered it, I’m not sure how you disconnect completely, I just removed & re-added. Thanks again!
Double tap on the signal input and choose 'Disconnect'.
I may have determined the function of the inputs to the MIDI PC Generator.
If the MIDI input is connected, those messages will be merged with the generated PCs.
If the Signal input is connected, the PC Generator will send that PC number, on the selected channel, whenever the input changes. With an ordinary knob, this will only generate PCs 0 and 1. I scaled the slider by 20, and I can generate PCs 0..20. So this is another way of determining the PC number.
@rs2000 It'd be nice if the Help included this info, so every module use doesn't turn into a lab experiment.
Good point @uncleDave.