[feature proposal] Rack-Midi-Control-Module / Meta-Midi-CC

Hi Forum, Giku,

i want to propose an idea for optimizing midi-control within drambo.

The use-case for the Meta-Midi-CC is:

-control any selected (last used/touched) control parameter instantly using a predefined CC.

->configurable/assignable in the midi menu. assign the control element/CC (fader, knob etcetc.) to the Meta-Midi-CC

->after assigning, have instant control over touched/selected parameter using the assigned hardware element

The use-case for the Rack-Midi-Control-Module is:

-have a new module called "Rack-Midi-Control-Module" (or something like that). placing the module within the rack (preferrably to the front) will get the user a CC control rack (all modulated parameters will get populated there - so its an overview of all modulated parameters as well).

-CC assignments will be configurable in the midi menu.

->as soon as user selects the respective channel/rack, the external controller will be assigned to the Rack-Midi-Control-Module in the configured manner (a good example of this would be the midi control rack in ableton live)

i would be happy to get some feedback on these proposals. in my opinion it would unclutter and streamline the way of midi controlling drambo.





  • @ravishment153. It sounds like these proposals would only work well with encoders on the external controller. Otherwise, a pot or fader would be misaligned with the parameter value whenever control was switched to a different parameter.

  • edited December 2022

    THX for your reply.

    yes. but this behaviour (arising from absolute values of the control element) is a standard issue anyways and it can be (as its not uncommon) be tackled by scaling/ smoothing (which could be optional)

  • Of course. But I feel that the dynamic switching to control different modules would have the user focused on tracking controls, rather than tweaking the sound. It would be great with incremental encoders. I believe some hardware synths have a single knob to adjust the current parameter selected from a menu, or an array of knobs dynamically switched to groups of parameters. I assume those systems use incremental encoders.

  • its good to read your response.

    reading it i am trying to reference it to one of the proposals - do you mean the meta-cc proposal or the rack-proposal.

    the rack should be quite understandable if you have used ableton. it basically is a way to group all relevant cc controlable parameters into one rack. so they are not all over the rack.

    if you are referencing the meta cc - this would be exactly a big plus for tweaking the parameter you are focusing on at the moment. because as soon as you select/touch a parameter its mapped to the meta cc. and tweakable with the control element you have assigned to it. this will not detract you from your focus - it will practically give you an option to instantly tweak the parameter with the hardware control element - without having to open an menu or do anything - as its already mapped. so you would always have the active parameter mapped to a hardware control without thinking or doing anything.

  • I meant both, actually. It is obvious for the "meta cc", since you're switching one controller knob to the last touched control.

    But it applies to the "rack-proposal" also, since the controls will be assigned "as soon as user selects the respective channel/rack". So, with conventional controllers, you'd need to re-align the controls when switching from one channel/rack to another. This could be confusing when switching quickly between racks. I know nothing about Ableton; does it have this multi-rack feature?

  • alright, i can see where your imagination goes with those absolute (analog style) control element assignments. and certainly you are right in a way.

    but let me say:

    • how many parameters do you want to cc control within one rack anyways (8/16/24/32..?)
    • you may detach the "following" of the assigned ccs to the rack.
    • parameter (pickup) scaling is needed for assignments to analog/absolute parameters
    • you will get accustomed to switching/assigning/using the ccs pretty quickly (i mean - in the end its you who assigned them, right?)

    and yeah - ableton has overall a quite similar approach, in a way, as drambo. racks and signal flow within them. as has bitwig. they both have implemented "rack controls" which can be assigned to parameters within the rack.

    then, i´d very much like to hear if you would have some ideas on how to streamline cc assignemts in drambo?

    and maybe you even have a better alternative for the meta-midi-cc proposal.

    cheers :-)

  • @ravishment153

    Have you tried the Morph module?

    You can assign them to almost any number of parameters and you can simply assign one CC to control the Morph knob.

  • its a good module for what it does! but - it is doing something quite different :-)

  • here is a way the "meta-cc" is implemented in logic:


  • From looking at the video example

    in which way is it different?

    The aim is to have one physical knob control multiple parameters at the same time???

  • maybe we talk about the same.

    when i read from you "at the same time" i think more than one parameter simultaneously. this is not what this cc would provide.

    if you mean multiple parameters "one after another" - then yes. therefore i came up with the name "meta-cc".

    controlling every and any parameter immediately - by the means of focusing on it (by selecting/touching it)

  • We are discussing the same thing which is there already there

    with the “Morph” knob and “CC Generator (multi)” modules.

    Simply tap “Assign” on the Morph knob and select which parameters you would like to adjust from one knob

    then midi map the Morph knob to one physical knob on your midi controller.

    The only caveat is that it works in one direction as dRambo has the signal flow from left to right.

  • edited December 2022

    I think you may be misunderstanding the original proposal. The idea is not to adjust multiple parameters together (in tandem). The idea is to have a "magic" knob controller that can adjust any one parameter selected at random: tap on a parameter, adjust it; tap on a different parameter, adjust only it; etc. Can we change the Morph assignment that easily? Deassign one parameter, assign a new one, deassign it, assign another, etc.?

    That's what I see in the video also. One parameter is selected and adjusted. Then a different parameter is selected and adjusted, without affecting the first.

  • hey gravitas, thx for chiming in.

    so - when using the morph knob, you would essentially map multiple parameters to the morph knob and then control them simultaneously using the morph knob. lets say - adjusting cutoff/resonance/delay feedback/delay amount at the same time. therefore "morphing" the patch.

    if this is what you meant - its not what i proposed.

  • Ahhh okay.

    I've misunderstood the proposal then.


    I've misunderstood the proposal.

  • Uncle Dave clarified your proposal for a"Magic" knob.

    No worries.

  • Actually, it appears to be impossible to deassign a Morph once assigned. I tried "Remove p-Locks", but it had no effect. I had to delete and re-add the affected module to remove the Morph effect. This could be a problem. @giku ?

  • Normally all you have to do is double click the assigned parameter again to de-assign it

    though it could be an issue with the AppStore version.

    I'll have a look.

  • The way I see it...

    Using a 'one knob controller' with a most likely fixed CC let's picture this.

    The Host (Drambo) in this case would continuously monitor the fixed CC and forward the value to the last manually modified rack parameter.

    This would be like 'magic', just like the rotary knob on my Audient ID4mk2 which in ID mode acts as a scroll wheel and modifies the parameter under the mouse-cursor.

    Don't know if that's what the OP is after but that's my functional interpretation of the request.

  • @uncleDave

    I've had a look on my iPhone 7 and de-assigning is working via the App Store version.

    Yup, that's what I realised after Uncle Dave's explanation.

    That would be really cool and it would save me the cost of something like this

    https://www.nobcontrol.com/ which I was thinking about getting earlier this year.

  • edited December 2022

    " will get the user a CC control rack (all modulated parameters will get populated there"


    i dont know

    usually I want to control very specific things in a sound, that change with my mood and what the sound is ...

    nothing pre-selected like "show all modulation amounts " will ever match what I want to do with the sound , now ?

    if you have a fixed structure of some sorts, that would make more sense.

    but since you are pretty free to come up with whatever ...

    im not sure how much sense a "preselection of any parameter/ group of parameters" would make.

    if things go bad you end up with 16 parameters preselected and mapped (and none of it is of interest to you) and the one parameter you actually wanted to control is not part of it 🙄

  • yes, great. it clicked. this is excactly the proposal. i am happy it came through now. THX samu for using your words. THX y'all. its crazy how difficult it can be getting something across written word :-)

    lets hope giku gets this as well. it would be nice for easy instant tweaking.

    and yes, this "nOb" thing is kinda the same. but I think this just mimicks mouse movements.

  • hey lala, I see what you are about - yes. but I see no contradiction. actually I feel it would support your use case. the rack would just give an overview of the midi cc assigned parameters.

  • edited December 2022

    "->as soon as user selects the respective channel/rack, "...

    so u want to hop over the tracks, and have the same hardware knob do different things depending on what track is selected ?

    uh, this will be very confusing to use ?

    I can see me drive my set against the wall in 2 minutes with that 🤪

  • @lala you would wouldn't you.

    I can picture it now. Lololol.

    I think it would be fun though.

    I'm currently mapping five scenes for my latest project using the LC XL. ;)

  • Here's the layout for the synth itself.

    The bottom row of knobs and the faders have now

    been changed to a Gate/Velocity Envlope filter thingy.

    I'm figuring it out right now.

  • he he, yes. but then the use cases are different. and well, not everyone has so many hardware knobs at their disposal :-)

  • @ravishment153 Agreed.

    In regards to the proposal, it's a good one because it's not

    always that someone would need so many knobs etc.

    It would be perfect for a minimal performance setup

    that's why I was looking at that one knob midi controller.

    I haven't used it yet so I wouldn't know how effective it would be.

  • okay.

    so the meta/instant knob cc would be favorable.

    yes - I feel like this as well.

    in my experience from other daws (ableton) its perfect. mostly to jam or quickly automate something.

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