@offbrands GitHub makes tones of sense as a host. I think I just heard someone say Obsidian so I thought that was the plan. I think Git as in push/pull requests as a means of collaboration would only allow a certain type of person to contribute. That’s all I was saying. GitHub as a markdown wiki host makes a lot sense.
if everyone interested in contributing wants to use Git that totally works for me! I just know that it can be complicated to get used to if you’ve never used it
Okay! It was me that mentioned Obsidian I just wanted to clarify what I should have earlier that it was for markdown sense not so much the app itself!
Yeah I mean Git can get pretty difficult but I’m wondering if realistically only several people use the editing features then it should be a workable solution. I only say that cause I know it’ll be like several people who contribute in the end no matter how easy we make it for people to contribute
That being said the straight forward approach might be the wiki one’s shared by @rs2000 - I’ll look into it.
I want to make sure it’s as cost efficient as possible so I don’t know anything about media wiki or the like but I know git is free is another reason I was at first thinking of it.
Another Obsidian (and Github) user here, who likes to write. I would contribute once established.
[edit] Oh. I should have read further before posting. I'm not interested if there's a cost involved. Also, I believe this would fall under Commercial Use if any of the work ends up in the in-app help, which ideally it should.
MediaWiki isn't particularly hard to set up. Hosting is where the costs can come in. If it can live on whatever infrastructure this forum is running on then that would be ideal. MediaWiki is low overhead. I have my own wiki running along with several other web services on a Raspberry Pi 4 in my home and it doesn't even break a sweat.
Loopy Pro forum member espiegel123 set up the Loopy Pro Wiki. He may be able to provide some insight if anyone would like to PM him over there.
I'm totally up for just plain 'ol Github and markdown, but I'm not a typical user. I think participation might suffer with that route. The control would be great though.
OK, @giku and me have picked DokuWiki now because of its simplicity and the fact that you can work with plain text markup.
The formatting rules are fairly simple, and there's some help documentation available in the Wiki to assist you in editing.
Giku was quick to set everything up!
Now I'll create a basic hierarchical structure and let you know when I'm done. I'll also grab some of the content that people on the former audiobus forum had added to the audiobus wiki. It might need some editing as a few Drambo things have changed over the years.
Giku and me are friends of organizing content by tagging information. I'll start with what I think could work but that will certainly need to be honed and extended over time.
For a start, I'll include everyone who has posted in this thread as editors but I'm happy to add more writers, it's easy 😊
Anyone who would like to contribute is very welcome to participate, just let us know here what you'd like to add so we can keep it somewhat organized in the beginning.
After the first major steps are done, we might open editing to everyone here, as the Wiki is not limited to Drambo only.
you dont learn how to cook tasty food by reading the handbook of the stove and the pan ... ;)
this needs to work differently
I explain the basics to you while we are on the way (if I need to) of creating *something* makes way more sense to me 🤔
kind of like the tutorial projects in drambo are?
ppl are supposed to have fun and not feel "lectured" by reading a mind numbing dokumentation to door 101
if you dont know that need to use these 3 modules together to get it to do whatever ... it doesn't really help if you know what each of them does ... 🤷🏻♂️
@rec, as a counterpoint to @lala’s comments, i think the stuff you’ve posted here would be extremely useful to beginners and i don’t think most new users have the time - initially at least - to learn through creative exercises in the way @lala suggests and that could just as easily feel like being lectured to anyway, just different approaches to teaching.
Surely the proposed wiki could encompass both approaches anyway? A catalogue of definitions for users who need that and a ‘cookbook’ for users who already understand the basics.
Your definitions would also work well in the module ‘?’ sections in app.
Perhaps stating the obvious, but in the ‘How to get started’ section (or somewhere), i would make sure to cover the ‘basics’ that users might wonder about if they’re coming from other audio software…e.g. setting up external equipment, sequencer/piano roll, export options, setting up patterns to play in sequence with repeats, automation, MIDI connections etc. Imagine a new user coming from their DAW of choice to Drambo and wanting to know how to do the everyday things every DAW does, i think it should cover this too as a reference guide even if only briefly.
@rs2000 I like this structure a lot! I think it’s great to get started. In my experience building similar knowledge banks, you’ll find out what needs more or less structure after you filled it out more, and this seems like the perfect amount of organization without being to rigid.
This isn’t related to the structure, but rather some ideas from a new user perspective. Drambo can be many things. The current manual touches on this, but I think it can be elaborated on and more friendly to new comers at the same time. What I mean by this is in the getting started section have guides thatnscrictly treat Drambo as one thing. ie Drambo the drum machine, Drambo the modular synth, Drambo the Midi arranger, Drambo the Sampler, etc. So instead of trying to give holistic overview it’s more like a series of different ways you could use it in your music workflow.
I bring this up because I’ve owned Drambo for many years but only recently got into it. For me that took minimizing its use to arranging for a while. But for others it may be something else. Drambo is a DAW in sheep’s clothing and like any daw it can be a lot to take in on first use. I’d be happy to try and write one of these as an example.
Really excited to dive into the wiki. Thanks for setting it up!
The horse has already left the barn, but I just stumbled over Patterning 3's very nice manual which is done in Google Docs, and has a "Request edit access" button at the top. I hadn't thought of Google Docs as a possible solution. It seems like having a limited number of editors in a pre-published version, then turning that into a final version when desired could be pretty easy. No apps required, editable from anywhere, and somewhat controlled. Also easy to apply consistent styling.
Probably no version control or change though. Or maybe not. I haven't looked into that.
Limited formatting and managing images is always something that bothers me a little with Wikis.
I'd say that DokuWiki works quite well in these regards. Image dimensions and restrictions can be given, positioning with text seems easy to do as well.
There are a number of plugins available, e.g. for adding tagging and tag-based search functionality and overall I like the simplicity of the thing, including plain text file support that lets me format text outside DokuWiki using common commandline tools etc.
Only "Introduction" and "Modules" have any content so far, shown as green text.
It's just a first take,let's discuss structure and content!
Clicking on a link to a nonexistent page will allow you to create a new one.
Images can be uploaded too.
Make sure you read some DokuWiki docs to get an idea about formatting, tagging and linking between pages and namespaces. My focus was on the "Drambo" namespace for now.
I've installed the DokuWiki tag and tag filtering functionality so tags are supported already. Let's also discuss which tags would make the most sense, I think that modules could/should have tags different from project tags - projects might better be tagged by use case.
@rs2000 Thanks for putting all of that together so fast! I think it’s going well. First thought is the dividers on the pages are messing up the table of contents sidebar. When there is a divider there is pushes all the content down, but when there isn’t one it morphs nicely around it.
As far as module page formatting, @rec ‘s dump looked really good to me. Something like that with a more free form section bellow it for advanced analysis and or weird use cases would make the most sense.
As the module info grows, does it make the most sense to have it all on one page? I suppose that can be changed down the road though.
Also you may not have enabled it yet, but I can’t seem to edit or change anything.
As the module info grows, does it make the most sense to have it all on one page? I suppose that can be changed down the road though.
This is only one of many possible views, if I understood it correctly.
By adding tags and anchors, my idea was to make modules searchable by tags and linkable by anchors. If there's the need to split into separate pages, tht should be possible too.
Comments
@aaa @parkerfrost - ^^^
@offbrands GitHub makes tones of sense as a host. I think I just heard someone say Obsidian so I thought that was the plan. I think Git as in push/pull requests as a means of collaboration would only allow a certain type of person to contribute. That’s all I was saying. GitHub as a markdown wiki host makes a lot sense.
if everyone interested in contributing wants to use Git that totally works for me! I just know that it can be complicated to get used to if you’ve never used it
I agree that Git might not be the best "mainstream choice".
I used to contribute content to
and
And I found editing very straightforward.
Also, edits and old revisions could be viewed easily so not much can be destroyed even if literally anyone with a login can contribute.
Okay! It was me that mentioned Obsidian I just wanted to clarify what I should have earlier that it was for markdown sense not so much the app itself!
Yeah I mean Git can get pretty difficult but I’m wondering if realistically only several people use the editing features then it should be a workable solution. I only say that cause I know it’ll be like several people who contribute in the end no matter how easy we make it for people to contribute
That being said the straight forward approach might be the wiki one’s shared by @rs2000 - I’ll look into it.
I want to make sure it’s as cost efficient as possible so I don’t know anything about media wiki or the like but I know git is free is another reason I was at first thinking of it.
Another Obsidian (and Github) user here, who likes to write. I would contribute once established.
[edit] Oh. I should have read further before posting. I'm not interested if there's a cost involved. Also, I believe this would fall under Commercial Use if any of the work ends up in the in-app help, which ideally it should.
MediaWiki isn't particularly hard to set up. Hosting is where the costs can come in. If it can live on whatever infrastructure this forum is running on then that would be ideal. MediaWiki is low overhead. I have my own wiki running along with several other web services on a Raspberry Pi 4 in my home and it doesn't even break a sweat.
Loopy Pro forum member espiegel123 set up the Loopy Pro Wiki. He may be able to provide some insight if anyone would like to PM him over there.
I'm totally up for just plain 'ol Github and markdown, but I'm not a typical user. I think participation might suffer with that route. The control would be great though.
Wow, thanks a lot @number37!
Looking into it.
@aaa
I noticed that you took the initiative in creating threads for individual modules.
Awesome.
Cheers @number37 - i’ll look into this
@aaa
I'm leaving my messages here as I don't want to mess with your flow in regards to the modules etc.
Agreed, keeping the one thread going rather than creating multiple threads makes much more sense.
Much less phaff.
OK, @giku and me have picked DokuWiki now because of its simplicity and the fact that you can work with plain text markup.
The formatting rules are fairly simple, and there's some help documentation available in the Wiki to assist you in editing.
Giku was quick to set everything up!
Now I'll create a basic hierarchical structure and let you know when I'm done. I'll also grab some of the content that people on the former audiobus forum had added to the audiobus wiki. It might need some editing as a few Drambo things have changed over the years.
Giku and me are friends of organizing content by tagging information. I'll start with what I think could work but that will certainly need to be honed and extended over time.
For a start, I'll include everyone who has posted in this thread as editors but I'm happy to add more writers, it's easy 😊
Anyone who would like to contribute is very welcome to participate, just let us know here what you'd like to add so we can keep it somewhat organized in the beginning.
After the first major steps are done, we might open editing to everyone here, as the Wiki is not limited to Drambo only.
That's great to hear @rs2000. Thanks so much to you and @giku for taking the steps to get this rolling! I'm looking forward to contributing.
@rec
sorry to say, I would not find this helpful, its just basic stuff ...
what I would find useful are cookbook like tool tips
like this
(lala grabs a bunch of modules and runs away with it)
the other stuff is just basic lesson 101 stuff - what does this module do ...
how to combine stuff in interesting ways is much more inspirational, me thinks
(reading about the basic functions does not make you come up with stuff like this ;) )
btw. "brown noise" isnt named after the color ...
its about mr. browns discovery of molecular movements (nobel prize in the 20s) - this is a very strong hint - use me for modulation ... ;)
just understanding the basics doesn't get you very far, you need to understand how to combine basic things to make something amazing 🤔
you dont learn how to cook tasty food by reading the handbook of the stove and the pan ... ;)
this needs to work differently
I explain the basics to you while we are on the way (if I need to) of creating *something* makes way more sense to me 🤔
kind of like the tutorial projects in drambo are?
ppl are supposed to have fun and not feel "lectured" by reading a mind numbing dokumentation to door 101
if you dont know that need to use these 3 modules together to get it to do whatever ... it doesn't really help if you know what each of them does ... 🤷🏻♂️
"brown noise"
discontinuous structure of matter
this random process is so deeply embedded in the universe, its crazy 🤯
@rec, as a counterpoint to @lala’s comments, i think the stuff you’ve posted here would be extremely useful to beginners and i don’t think most new users have the time - initially at least - to learn through creative exercises in the way @lala suggests and that could just as easily feel like being lectured to anyway, just different approaches to teaching.
Surely the proposed wiki could encompass both approaches anyway? A catalogue of definitions for users who need that and a ‘cookbook’ for users who already understand the basics.
Your definitions would also work well in the module ‘?’ sections in app.
Good points @Robin.
I'm still thinking about the basic structure.
It looks like this now:
Drambo sections
Intro
.
How to get started
Building a basic synthesizer
Adding effects
Polyphony
...
Recipes, tips and tricks: How do I ... ?
.
Showcase: Projects and presets made by Drambo users
.
Modules
.
.
.
Block diagram
.
Integrating Drambo with your existing gear
.
Also, I'm planning to add a set of predefined tags for modules (like in Drambo's Add menu) and a separate set of tags for recipes and projects.
I'm leaning towards tags that focus on the result rather than on the theory behind it.
Opinions?
Sounds good to me @rs2000.
Perhaps stating the obvious, but in the ‘How to get started’ section (or somewhere), i would make sure to cover the ‘basics’ that users might wonder about if they’re coming from other audio software…e.g. setting up external equipment, sequencer/piano roll, export options, setting up patterns to play in sequence with repeats, automation, MIDI connections etc. Imagine a new user coming from their DAW of choice to Drambo and wanting to know how to do the everyday things every DAW does, i think it should cover this too as a reference guide even if only briefly.
@rs2000 I like this structure a lot! I think it’s great to get started. In my experience building similar knowledge banks, you’ll find out what needs more or less structure after you filled it out more, and this seems like the perfect amount of organization without being to rigid.
This isn’t related to the structure, but rather some ideas from a new user perspective. Drambo can be many things. The current manual touches on this, but I think it can be elaborated on and more friendly to new comers at the same time. What I mean by this is in the getting started section have guides thatnscrictly treat Drambo as one thing. ie Drambo the drum machine, Drambo the modular synth, Drambo the Midi arranger, Drambo the Sampler, etc. So instead of trying to give holistic overview it’s more like a series of different ways you could use it in your music workflow.
I bring this up because I’ve owned Drambo for many years but only recently got into it. For me that took minimizing its use to arranging for a while. But for others it may be something else. Drambo is a DAW in sheep’s clothing and like any daw it can be a lot to take in on first use. I’d be happy to try and write one of these as an example.
Really excited to dive into the wiki. Thanks for setting it up!
Great suggestions @Robin, @parkerfrost
Thank you!
modulation in drambo is really simple 😁
you just need to understand
"how to modulate anything you want to with anything you want to"
forget what the dokumentation says ;)
who cares if you are not supposed to modulate that? 😆
I dont. 😃
free your mind 😀
i do this all the time
I dont think this is anywhere in the dokumentation ?!🤔
The horse has already left the barn, but I just stumbled over Patterning 3's very nice manual which is done in Google Docs, and has a "Request edit access" button at the top. I hadn't thought of Google Docs as a possible solution. It seems like having a limited number of editors in a pre-published version, then turning that into a final version when desired could be pretty easy. No apps required, editable from anywhere, and somewhat controlled. Also easy to apply consistent styling.
Probably no version control or change though. Or maybe not. I haven't looked into that.
Limited formatting and managing images is always something that bothers me a little with Wikis.
I'd say that DokuWiki works quite well in these regards. Image dimensions and restrictions can be given, positioning with text seems easy to do as well.
There are a number of plugins available, e.g. for adding tagging and tag-based search functionality and overall I like the simplicity of the thing, including plain text file support that lets me format text outside DokuWiki using common commandline tools etc.
Works for me. I'm good with Doku or other Wikis. They're fast and efficient once you get used to them.
I just saw that Patterning 3 manual and thought "Damn, that final product looks a lot nicer than any Wiki I've come across."
Yeah, it requires quite some time and dedication to build a good manual, no matter which platform you're using.
Hi guys,
here's the first version of the Wiki.
You can log in with your forum account.
Only "Introduction" and "Modules" have any content so far, shown as green text.
It's just a first take,let's discuss structure and content!
Clicking on a link to a nonexistent page will allow you to create a new one.
Images can be uploaded too.
Make sure you read some DokuWiki docs to get an idea about formatting, tagging and linking between pages and namespaces. My focus was on the "Drambo" namespace for now.
I've installed the DokuWiki tag and tag filtering functionality so tags are supported already. Let's also discuss which tags would make the most sense, I think that modules could/should have tags different from project tags - projects might better be tagged by use case.
@rs2000 Thanks for putting all of that together so fast! I think it’s going well. First thought is the dividers on the pages are messing up the table of contents sidebar. When there is a divider there is pushes all the content down, but when there isn’t one it morphs nicely around it.
As far as module page formatting, @rec ‘s dump looked really good to me. Something like that with a more free form section bellow it for advanced analysis and or weird use cases would make the most sense.
As the module info grows, does it make the most sense to have it all on one page? I suppose that can be changed down the road though.
Also you may not have enabled it yet, but I can’t seem to edit or change anything.
What does everyone else think?
EDIT: is there a dark mode?
the colors are weird
Is there a left column hierarchal navigation system? I feel like that would help get around it quickly.
@parkerfrost
As the module info grows, does it make the most sense to have it all on one page? I suppose that can be changed down the road though.
This is only one of many possible views, if I understood it correctly.
By adding tags and anchors, my idea was to make modules searchable by tags and linkable by anchors. If there's the need to split into separate pages, tht should be possible too.
On the module page, DokuWiki has automatically created a table of contents on the right.