Ableton link synchronization does not work
I tried to synchronize drambo with the djay pro application via an ableton link. Drambo does not synchronize start/stop. Because of this, you won't be able to get into the rhythm. When I open drambo through AUM everything works fine
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Just hit Play in Drambo with LINK enabled. Start/Stop sync won't be immediate anyway.
Now I tried it, everything works. But when you connect wireless headphones, the pace slows down. I thought it was due to the latency of the headphones. But through AUM everything works without delays
What do you mean by "the pace slows down"?
Which wireless headphones?
How much delay?
Are AUv3 plugins involved or do you have the delays in native Drambo projects too?
Headphones sony wh-1000xm4.
When the headphones are turned on when the play button is pressed, the rhythm of the djay pro drums does not match the rhythm of the drums in the drambo. When the headphones are unplugged, everything is ok.
I don't use additional plugins.
Plugged in?
Are you using them with Bluetooth or wired? Is the noise cancellation feature on?
It almost sounds as though one of the apps is sending through the wire and the other through Bluetooth though I'd hardly think that possible. What happens if you connect wired and unpair the bluetooth?
Headphones are connected via bluetooth. Everything works fine through the wire. I tried turning noise reduction on/off, but it didn't make any difference.
I think it's not a matter of headphones and bluetooth. When I try to load drambo through AUM everything works fine.
Very hard to say what could be wrong without more details.
If all works without the headphones attached then it sounds like the issue is at least related to Bluetooth.
What is djay pro drums? An AUv3 plugin loaded in the "Audio Unit instrument" module in Drambo standalone?
I have a DJ app called Djay pro that I want to sync with Drambo. This can only be done via Ableton Link. First, I launch a track in Djay pro, and then press the play button in Drambo.
I have Sony WH-1000XM4 headphones as a listening device. When the headphones are connected via Bluetooth, the kick rhythm in Drambo does not match the kick rhythm of the track in the Djay pro app. When the headphones are connected via a wire, synchronization works fine. I do not use third-party plugins.
When I launch Drambo as a plugin in the AUM app, everything works fine. In this case, it does not matter how the headphones are connected, via wire or Bluetooth. Synchronization works fine.
I noticed this problem not only when I wanted to sync Drambo in Djay pro. The same thing with other applications. Synchronization drambo does not work via Ableton Link.
Sorry but I cannot confirm this here.
Ableton LINK works perfectly, with the typical delays caused by Bluetooth of course but that applies to every plugin loaded in Drambo equally.
This isn’t related to Link. The problem is the Bluetooth headphones. Either DJ Pro or Drambo is outputting at a different latency from the other.
I’m not saying there isn’t a problem. I’m saying the problem is with Bluetooth output delay not Link.
I don’t see how anyone can work with music apps with the latency from Bluetooth headphones. But that’s beside the point. I don’t see how @giku could match Drambo’s Bluetooth latency with other apps which could be handling it differently, but maybe there’s something to look at there.
(When hosted in AUM, Drambo isn’t managing the audio output to the headphones, AUM is.)
I think you are right, the problem is more with the headphones and the bluetooth delay in various programs.
I'm not good at programming, but I think if synchronization works without delay in one application, then it can be done in another
Bluetooth audio is never without delay in any application.
The problem you're seeing is the delay isn't consistent between applications. There isn't any way that a developer can coordinate or even know what kind of delay other apps are using to deal with Bluetooth latency. The only exception is if everything is in the same host. Then the host controls the output for everything.
Perhaps you are right. But why then does AUM connect without delay to all the applications I tried. Is there a delay when connecting to drambo?
Sorry, I don’t understand what you’re asking.
AUM “connecting” to apps? Sorry, I can’t make sense of that statement in the context of what we’ve been talking about (Bluetooth audio).
That's what I wondered about too, maybe Inter-App-Audio instead of AUv3?
That was my guess too. Maybe they mean IAA apps that are added into AUM. What I said about the host handling the audio output to Bluetooth still applies. If an app is "hosted" in AUM then of course it will sound in sync because all the audio is flowing through it.
As Drambo can't host IAA apps, I assume that the app in question is sending its audio out to Bluetooth in parallel to Drambo doing the same. There's no flow "through" Drambo in that situation. So, there isn't any way to assure that both apps handle the latency the same.
If two people start off walking someplace at their own pace, they'll likely end up going different speeds and arriving at different times. If you put them both together on a bus, they'll both arrive at the same time.
The impression that there's no delay with some apps over Bluetooth is incorrect. There's always significant latency with Bluetooth audio. What's being noticed is the differing amount of latency from apps each acting independently.
Why different apps using the same BT audio link are running out of sync while they're in sync when using wired headphones, sounds like an interesting question.
Looks like other people have experienced similar behavior:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ios/comments/7m5j23/bluetooth_audio_lag_in_some_apps_but_not_others/
J. Liljedahl wrote in 2016 (not sure if it still applies):
The issue with bluetooth audio is a limitation in iOS: if an app that allows recording from hardware input connects to bluetooth, then it will use "handset mode" (using both speaker and mic of the bluetooth device) which means like 8kHz sample rate and extremely crappy sound!
To support hi-fi bluetooth output, the app must use a non-recording mode. I'll look into this for the future, it could maybe be done with a user setting that turns on bluetooth (and airplay) but then also disables recording and increases the latency. I think Garageband has such a switch. Also I think it doesn't work if the app is connected to another IAA host (hosted inside Auria/Cubasis or connected to an output app like Loopy through Audiobus).
Maybe the different apps use different BT audio modes, who knows...
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/67047253/swift-avaudioplayer-bluetooth-sound-delay
This problem only occurs with Drambo. I tried many different apps. AUM works with DJay Pro without delays via Bluetooth, Loopy pro also works without delays. These apps can also act as a host, just like Drambo. But the Bluetooth delay only occurs in Drambo.
I would probably agree with your idea that the delay between apps cannot be taken into account. But in other apps everything is OK. This means that the developers of these apps have fixed this.
I hope I explained clearly...
DJ Pro is an IAA/Standalone app. AUM and Loopy Pro can host IAA apps. Drambo cannot. When you host DJ Pro in AUM or Loopy Pro, its sound goes through the host (AUM or Loopy Pro). Effectively the sound isn't coming from separate apps but only through the host, so it's all synchronized.
When using with Drambo, DJ Pro's sound is going out independently from Drambo's so Drambo has no control over synchronizing the Bluetooth delay with it.
I don't know how else to explain it to you.
There are no plans to support IAA apps in Drambo that I know of. IAA is a deprecated protocol that Apple is no longer maintaining and that may not always work in the future.
Unless the IAA app has adjustable buffer size then it will remain out of sync with dRambo.
A possiblity to keep them sync is to adjust dRambo's buffer size however that will
not guarantee that both apps will remain in sync once Transport is started.
Yes, now I understand what we're talking about. Then you will have to additionally use AUM. Thanks for the detailed explanation
IAA is buggy and outdated.
havent used IAA since years.
IAA has been replaced by AUv3.
That will only help if you use the AUv3 version of Drambo hosted in AUM. If you do that though, remember that you can't host any AUv3 plugins inside Drambo. That's an iOS limitation - plugins can't host other plugins. However, it will take care of the timing issues and you can host any AUv3 plugins you need inside AUM.
Whatcha gonna do though if there's no AUv3 compatible app that does what you need? I don't think there's any equivalent to DJ Pro that's AUv3 compatible.
(Actually, there is soda dj app. But that one is so buggy at AUv3 hosting it's unusable and is for all purposes abandoned as far as I can tell.)
I'm thinking of using AUM. I don't see any other option. It's sad that the Djay pro does not support the AUv3 format((
Has to be Bluetooth? Huh. That's usually the last option people making music on iOS would attempt.
But I guess DJ'ing is different than trying to play instruments live. It must not need to respond exactly realtime.