I have two ipads and I want to use one of them for sequencing my modular synth setup (all midi out) and the other ipad to sequence drambo onboard synths.
I have two iPads. The first one is connected to the zoom ams-22 interface. The second iPad is connected to a type c - jack 3.5 adapter and then it goes to the stereo input in zoom. Ableton Link is enabled on both iPads.
When starting, there is a desynchronization. Changing the midi clock offset does not give any special result. On both devices, the sample rate is 48 kHz and the buffer size is 512.
A few things to consider when comparing LINK with MIDI sync:
LINK synchronizes tempo (BPM) and the beat (bar). MIDI only sends a clock signal that set's the tempo, but does not sync the beat. Devices connected via Ableton Link will always be beat synchronized - even when the sequencers are stopped. MIDI synchronization requires all synced devices to receive a Start / Stop or Continue signal at the same time for them to be beat synchronized.
While MIDI synchronization operates on a strict clock sender / receiver principle, Ableton Link is based on a peer to peer architecture. This means each connected device can both set the tempo and send start/stop commands, and receive tempo information and start/stop from other devices. The Ableton Link settings in Drambo even allow you to disable start/stop synchronization. This allows you to start and stop the sequencer on each iPad individually while still keeping the beat synchronization.
When Drambo is configured to receive clock via MIDI you cannot control the transport (sequencer) manually anymore.
Because of this my personal choice is using Ableton Link to sync my two iPads. They are connected via wired ethernet (USB ethernet adapters) to reduce any potential jitter caused by changing WiFi conditions. This might be over the top because LINK works very well over WiFi.
When the devices play each through their own speakers, I do not hear a delay. But when I connect one to the interface, and the second through an adapter, type c - jack 3.5, a delay occurs.
The buffer settings on both iPads has to be the same as @gravitas mentioned earlier.
Also different interfaces use different audio processing resulting in varying latencies. If that’s the case then you’ll need to find solutions where latency compensation control is available.
( I also noticed that the iPad to which I connect zoom Ams-22 sometimes shows sample rate 44100. And I can't change it. Can this somehow affect the delay?
Are there any recommendations for an audio interface?
@ptrvch I doubt that a different audio interface would make iOS a more powerful audio platform. You can't even use more than one audio interface at the same time on iOS, and I think it's because Apple want you to buy a Mac for serious audio work.
I have tried many applications, but I always come back to Drambo. Because its sequencer is the best and most convenient.
At the moment I managed to set up two iPads. On one Drambo is running inside AUM, on the other Loopy PRO is open. But, unfortunately, in this case I cannot load AUv3 in Drambo
At the moment, I managed to synchronize 2 iPads via Bluetooth midi.
On one iPad, Drambo with drum synthesizers is running, on the other, Loopy PRO with Moog Mariana+Twin3+Plaits(miRack). Drambo acts as the main device and distributes the clock. The delay is set in Loopy PRO.
In this case, I can additionally make Loopy PRO a control panel and control Drambo.
"The second iPad is connected to a type c - jack 3.5 adapter and then it goes to the stereo input in zoom. Ableton Link is enabled on both iPads."
these are 2 devices that sum up the latency on this chain ...
on a Mac you can use all your audiointerfaces as a group device that act like its one device,
this is not possible on iOS
if you are serious about this just get a Mac & live ;)
iOS is a pathetic joke, apple hasn't delivered good software since years & years. 😑
I dont see this changing anytime soon, they are far to busy with trendy "ai" and are not focused on useful software features that user actually want & need. 🙄
i didnt buy a new iPad since years & years, I still use the last iPad that had a headphone jack, because nothing has changed. its still the same old crap. now with new emoji nobody asked for. ;)
All creativity leaves me as soon as I sit down at a desktop. Probably from working 10-12 hours a day for 30 years in IT. It's been that way since 1998. The iPad is what got me able to create again.
Desktop is fine for arranging, mixing and mastering, but I can't create there to save my life. Can't afford the software either.
I use a retro kit rk006 for this, in combination with a Roland s1, and audiobus to adjust midi latency, as it has negative latency setting per midi connection. So drambo slave to audiobus, clock coming from s1 via USB, s1 connected via trs to the rk006, rk006 connected via USB to second iPad. Works great. Can add plenty other midi instruments to the rk, via USB or midi. Audio to a cheap mixer with only volume controls.
midi clock is not the thing to use anymore, avoid it if you can.
It jitters all over the place. you need to stop start the session as it continues to drift apart.
syncing 2 computers ( or more) via Ableton link works very well.
the problem the thread opener has is not getting the iPads to sync, they are in sync when internal speakers are used.
the problem is different latency time from different audio interfaces/routing after each iPad ... thats what messes the sync up after the fact that is was in sync ;)
I bet that the audio that gos into usb headphone adapter and then into some other audiointerface is delayed, the other iPad sends the audio directly into an audiointerface (this is faster?), as I understand it ...
so the simple solution is to do the same thing on each iPads audio ...
Comments
This is the way I have my rig.
I use one idevice for my Eurorack rig and the other for the heavy lifting.
The most stable way for me I have found is using Ableton Link.
You simply have to adjust for Latency if the two ipads have different buffer settings.
Nice to know that they will work with ableton link, without ableton, cool!
Thank you, sir!
No problem.
I have two iPads. The first one is connected to the zoom ams-22 interface. The second iPad is connected to a type c - jack 3.5 adapter and then it goes to the stereo input in zoom. Ableton Link is enabled on both iPads.
When starting, there is a desynchronization. Changing the midi clock offset does not give any special result. On both devices, the sample rate is 48 kHz and the buffer size is 512.
How can I set up synchronization?
@ptrvch You have to decide whether to sync via MIDI clock or via Ableton Link. With LINK active, the MIDI Clock Offset slider is ineffective.
LINK is easy to use and works generally very well, but it can take up to 1 bar for both iPads to play in sync. That's how Ableton LINK works.
Once they're running in sync, it should be stable.
A few things to consider when comparing LINK with MIDI sync:
Because of this my personal choice is using Ableton Link to sync my two iPads. They are connected via wired ethernet (USB ethernet adapters) to reduce any potential jitter caused by changing WiFi conditions. This might be over the top because LINK works very well over WiFi.
I left the connection via Ableton Link.
When the devices play each through their own speakers, I do not hear a delay. But when I connect one to the interface, and the second through an adapter, type c - jack 3.5, a delay occurs.
What could this be related to?
The buffer settings on both iPads has to be the same as @gravitas mentioned earlier.
Also different interfaces use different audio processing resulting in varying latencies. If that’s the case then you’ll need to find solutions where latency compensation control is available.
Could be Interface latency, unfortunately not all interfaces are created equal...
Sadly
( I also noticed that the iPad to which I connect zoom Ams-22 sometimes shows sample rate 44100. And I can't change it. Can this somehow affect the delay?
Are there any recommendations for an audio interface?
@ptrvch I doubt that a different audio interface would make iOS a more powerful audio platform. You can't even use more than one audio interface at the same time on iOS, and I think it's because Apple want you to buy a Mac for serious audio work.
AUM and Loopy PRO have Ableton Link delay compensation. As a result, the delay was -80 ms.
But in Drambo, alas, it was not possible to achieve this(((
... or subscribe to Logic Pro iPadOS, where they have unfairly implemented a proprietary way of using more than one interface.
I have tried many applications, but I always come back to Drambo. Because its sequencer is the best and most convenient.
At the moment I managed to set up two iPads. On one Drambo is running inside AUM, on the other Loopy PRO is open. But, unfortunately, in this case I cannot load AUv3 in Drambo
@ptrvch - Why do you need to run Drambo in AUM?
At the moment, I managed to synchronize 2 iPads via Bluetooth midi.
On one iPad, Drambo with drum synthesizers is running, on the other, Loopy PRO with Moog Mariana+Twin3+Plaits(miRack). Drambo acts as the main device and distributes the clock. The delay is set in Loopy PRO.
In this case, I can additionally make Loopy PRO a control panel and control Drambo.
Now I can have fun for hours on end))
In AUM it is possible to adjust the offset when connecting Ableton Link. With Drambo I could not do this.
"The second iPad is connected to a type c - jack 3.5 adapter and then it goes to the stereo input in zoom. Ableton Link is enabled on both iPads."
these are 2 devices that sum up the latency on this chain ...
on a Mac you can use all your audiointerfaces as a group device that act like its one device,
this is not possible on iOS
if you are serious about this just get a Mac & live ;)
iOS is a pathetic joke, apple hasn't delivered good software since years & years. 😑
I dont see this changing anytime soon, they are far to busy with trendy "ai" and are not focused on useful software features that user actually want & need. 🙄
i didnt buy a new iPad since years & years, I still use the last iPad that had a headphone jack, because nothing has changed. its still the same old crap. now with new emoji nobody asked for. ;)
there is a single audiointerface , that I know of, that lets you connect 2 ipads ...
but a 1000€ audiointerface cant be the solution to the "your apple computer cant speak to your other apple computer problem" ;)
I understand that iOS is not perfect. But it gives something that other devices do not - finger control.
And it also gives portability. Will it be comfortable for you to sit with a Mac on the subway? I doubt it)
Will it be as fun for me to play Drambo on a Mac and click with a mouse? I doubt it)
The easiest way is to say buy a Mac and Ableton, but the question is, will it be as exciting and fun?
All creativity leaves me as soon as I sit down at a desktop. Probably from working 10-12 hours a day for 30 years in IT. It's been that way since 1998. The iPad is what got me able to create again.
Desktop is fine for arranging, mixing and mastering, but I can't create there to save my life. Can't afford the software either.
I cant finish anything on iOS, too. its just collecting ideas for something that could become something. 🤷🏻♂️
I dont have separate creating, arranging & mixing processes.
it all gos hand in hand.
I listen to stuff the next day and its like ok, these 2 tracks dont work, lets delete those and see what else I can come up with instead ...
so its a lot of back and forth
idam doesnt help, its simply not enough. 🤷🏻♂️
its just enough to quickly noodle something on an iOS synth into your real session on the Mac. 😑
nothing has changed in 10 years 😑
apple has transformed into IBM. 🙄
Ableton had to step in and at least gave as sync. nothing would work without Ableton Link at all on iOS.
/rant
I use a retro kit rk006 for this, in combination with a Roland s1, and audiobus to adjust midi latency, as it has negative latency setting per midi connection. So drambo slave to audiobus, clock coming from s1 via USB, s1 connected via trs to the rk006, rk006 connected via USB to second iPad. Works great. Can add plenty other midi instruments to the rk, via USB or midi. Audio to a cheap mixer with only volume controls.
midi clock is not the thing to use anymore, avoid it if you can.
It jitters all over the place. you need to stop start the session as it continues to drift apart.
syncing 2 computers ( or more) via Ableton link works very well.
the problem the thread opener has is not getting the iPads to sync, they are in sync when internal speakers are used.
the problem is different latency time from different audio interfaces/routing after each iPad ... thats what messes the sync up after the fact that is was in sync ;)
I bet that the audio that gos into usb headphone adapter and then into some other audiointerface is delayed, the other iPad sends the audio directly into an audiointerface (this is faster?), as I understand it ...
so the simple solution is to do the same thing on each iPads audio ...
or add delay to the faster audio route ...
Unfortunately, I don't know which device sends sound faster.
The difficulty is that the delay via Ableton Link is adjustable only in AUM. It is not available in Drambo and Loopy PRO.