noob q: how do i wire the xy pad?!

sorry for the noob q, but i can't figure out how to wire the xy pad?

i'd like the x to be a value from one module (say filter cut off) and the y to be a value from another (say osc tune).

this does not seem to be covered by the docs and i couldn't find any basic info on it here.

thanks!

Comments

  • edited August 3

    It's similar to wiring other Drambo modules. Tap on the ">" next to Filter Cutoff, and possble sources (to the left only) light up and you can select X, Y, or Gate. Repeat for Osc Tune. You need to turn up the modulation amount knobs for it to have any effect. The XY Pad is an input only device, and it must appear to the left of the parameters to be modulated. You may want to insert scalers to keep the control in reasonable bounds. The screenshot shows how this looks when selecting Osc Tune.


  • oh got it... thank you!

    is there a way to make the xy value/movement make the destination knob show the new value? similar to how a modulator in say bitwig would show the modulated value as part of the destination knob?

    it's a bit confusing to change the value of something but not see the destination knob display the adjusted value :)

  • @j28 No. In case of using the XY pad it might make sense but it's not supported for these reasons:

    1. You wouldn't be able to see the original (non-modulated) knob value anymore which would be irritating
    2. Higher modulation frequencies would show nothing useful on the knob
    3. If you wanted to change the original knob position, how would you know what you're doing?
  • j28j28
    edited August 3

    :)

    bitwig does this quite nicely... :)

    but i understand drambo is not there yet. maybe it can copy the way bitwig does it (ideally 1 to 1). :)

    [the blue value is the modulated one... it works with neg values rel to the main value too... it's just a darker blue in that case]



  • edited August 3

    hm, so you have lets say 3 or 4 modulation sources, like keyfollow, envelope, lfo and velocity, some modulation is positive some is negative ( nothing exotic, right?)

    visual reference isn't really helpful anymore, every parameter change influences the end result heavily

    all the ring would tell you is oh this sums up to to much or not enough maybe (you can hear that at once) , you still would have to adjust the mod amounts individually for this not to happen, (as you want all these modulations to happen you need to dial down all the mod amounts individually (graphic is no real help here, it just shows you maybe this is not what u expected)

    you have to adjust the modulation amounts and the parameter itself by ear anyway to get what you are after, imho


    besides with the xy pad you can push the parameter range further than you could with wiggling the knob ;)

    there is no logical way to visualize this (meaning you cant tell whats going on by looking at knob ring ...)

    you just have to use your ears :)

  • @j28 We had these rings in some internal beta versions, even flying arrows that indicated modulation or p-lock values even more clearly so we've put some thought into the matter indeed. The final word hasn't been spoken yet, but given that we have an insane amount of potential modulation sources (MIDI control, p-locks, multiple modulation sources, one day also automation ... which ones would you show? 😉), at some point, decisions have to be taken.

    On one hand, we all want Drambo to be the absolute powerhouse that can do everything, on the other hand we'd like to keep it straightforward and intuitive enough as to keep it accessible and fast, without too many potential obscure pitfalls.

  • j28j28
    edited August 3

    interesting...

    i am not understanding how the modulators are combined (or go in parallel) in the case of drambo... i assumed they are combined in a way where there is only one current value (at any one given point in time) to display.

    so even if the p-locks are combined with the modulators... at a given moment in time a value (say filter cut off) is fixed (the dsp can't set the cut off to 2 different values at the same time, can it ? ;))

    i'm pasting a gif of how 2 combined lfo modulators are displayed in bitwig (this is the active view where the user is determining the range of one of the modulators...)

    is the logic in drambo completely different and this kind of visualization would not work?

    i work as a prod manager so i understand trade offs need to be made... i'm just not understanding how the drambo context is different from the bitwig modulators context (where any modulator within a track can modulate any parameter within the same track... regardless if they are part of the same device).

    this forum's preview does not turn the gif into an animation... so here is a link to the gif :)

    https://ibb.co/hgZ2Xqh

  • edited August 3

    in theory this is nice

    in the real world it becomes visual clutter pretty quick

    you see its only 2 mod sources in your gif

    add a 3rd or 4th and its becomes a wildly bouncing up and down thing with to much visual info thats hard to decipher with just one look

    (i had to look 3 times to get what the graphic is doing with the colors and its only a mix of 2 things)


    the point of the ring was to see whats going on at once ...

    you see this is where the cat starts to bite into its own tail


    we went through many ideas, we will see what we will end up with, we all like practical solutions. :)


    (in case you didnt know scenes (morph) and plocks have priority over the rest of modulations, this is the most intuitive and musical solution )


    bitwig doesnt have global morph(if you dont setup something clever and dreadful yourself I guess), its only automation (p locks are kind of a simpler automation)

    so bitwigs modulation concept is much simpler ;)


    hey found lyrics for today

    clever and dreadful ^^

  • All modulation inputs you add to a knob will simply be added, including p-locks, respecting their positive or negative values. The sum of them all will be the amount by which the destination parameter is going to be changed.

    Example:

    You have a synth track with a sequence of notes defining a melody,

    You add p-locks at certain steps while playing live to transpose that melody without changing the original notes (and p-locks can be erased from the sequence without erasing the notes),

    then you have controller inputs like a modwheel that controls the LFO amount on oscillator pitch on that track.

    They all work together.

  • Thanks for clarifying.

    I was thinking that since they all add up to a single value at any given point in time would be okay to visualize them (even if the visual is moving like crazy).

    I am completely new to Drambo. I downloaded it yesterday because I realized Audulus does not have easily accessible MIDI clock in/out... and I want to attend a synth battle with just an ipad and an analogue drum machine. :)

    I have not played with the morphing/scenes or p-locks yet... but I used to play live with an Octatrack so I've taken advantage of both of these concepts in a hardware device already.

    I need to play with the morphing & p-locks in order to form my own opinion if it makes sense to visualize the current parameter value (on the destination module).

    I might come re-open this thread (or start a new one) once I understand all the complexity.

    Btw if you do alpha testing on the visualizations you mentioned you've played with I am totally down to try them and give feedback. :)

    Btw I'm quite impressed with Drambo already and I'm glad you are very quick to respond. I watched a video on morphing/scenes/p-locks already and I can't wait to dig in more.

    I generally prefer a node based env like the Bitwig grid or TouchDesigner for synthesizing audio and visuals, but I like what you've done with Drambo better than VCV rack & Reaktor Blocks... so I can get over the fact that the UI is not node based. :)

  • @j28 Thanks! 😊

    I've used about every available modular synth on iOS plus Clavia Nord Modulars, Generator/Reaktor, Puredata and an old Elektor Formant system.

    In terms of speed, i.e. required time to build something new that works well, the Nord Modular and Drambo are on top of all so far. For me at least.

    That's not to say that the others aren't any good, god beware, also miRack is excellent because of the great included modules that are second to none - it's just my thing to build more complex stuff from rather basic building blocks and that's the spirit of Drambo.

    Of course it helps a lot to have implicit polyphony up to 8 voices and a highly efficient DSP engine.

    Btw, scenes are worth it! Be it switching between up to 16 different snapshots or crossfading between any two of them is a great performance tool.

    MIDI control, although LED feedback does not (yet) exist, is among the best too. Absolute and relative controller support, BT keyboard support, definition of active ranges... all great stuff.

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